“Chinese and Brazilian Ideas and Involvement in Sub-Saharan Africa”, interview with the authors
Anthony Peter Spanakos is an Associate Professor of Political Science and Law at Montclair State University (USA). He has an A.B. from Princeton University (1995) and an M.A. and Ph.D from the University of Massachusetts Amherst (1998, 2000). He was a Fulbright Fellow at the Universidade de Brasília (2002) and the Instituto de Estudios Superiores de Administración (Venezuela 2008), as well as a Visiting Researcher at the East Asia Institute at the National University of Singapore (Singapore 2009).
He was visiting lecturer at Tufts University (1999-2000), visiting assistant professor at Manhattanville College (2000-2002), and assistant professor at Touro College (2003-2006), prior to moving to Montclair State University (2006-). He is also an adjunct faculty in the MA program in politics at New York University (2007-).
Among his recent publications are:
- Anthony P. Spanakos and Joseph Marques, “The Chinese Contribution to Brazil’s Rise as Middle Power,” Bruce Gilley and Andrew O’Neil Ed., Reshaping China: Why Middle Powers Matter, (forthcoming)
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “Hell’s Kitchen’s Prolonged Crisis and Would-be Sovereigns: Daredevil, Hobbes, and Schmitt,” PS: Political Science & Politics (Jan 2014) p. 94-97.
- Spanakos, Anthony Peter and Clarity Burke, “The BRICS development Bank: China and the Evolving World Order,” East Asia Institute Background Brief No. 835, 18 July 2013.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “Latin America’s Left: Between Demos and Kratos,” October 2013 http://publicbooks.org/nonfiction/latin-americas-left-between-demos-and-kratos
- Anthony P. Spanakos and Yu Xiao, “It Takes Three to Samba: Sino-US-Latin American Relations.” Creutzfeldt, Benjamin (ed.) Treinta Años de Relaciones Colombo-Chinas: La Presencia China en Colombia y América Latina – Reflexiones y Perspectivas. Bogotá: Universidad Externado de Colombia (2013)
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “China and the Rise of the BRICS,” Gungwu Wang and Yongnian Zheng Ed., China: Development and Governance, Singapore: World Scientific, 2012.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “Liberalism and Post-Liberalism in Bolivarian Venezuela,” Latin American Politics & Society, 54 (3) Fall 2012, 197-206.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “Citizen Chávez: The State, Social Movements, and the Publics in Forming a New Citizenship- Nation-State Project,” Latin American Perspectives 38 (1), Jan 2011. Pp. 14-27.
- Anthony P. Spanakos and Lucio R. Renno, “Is It the (Global) Economy Stupid Why did the Left Rise in Brazil (1994-2010),” Sonia Ranincheski, Camilo Negri, and Charles Mueller Ed., The Brazilian Economy in Historical Perspective, Brasília: Verbena, 2011, p 103-117.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “Citizenship and the Politics of Citizenship.” Parashar, S. and Y. Wang (ed) Inequality in a Globalizing World: Perspectives, Processes, and Experiences.Kendall Hunt Publishing (2011)
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “Citizen Chávez: The State, Social Movements, and the Publics in Forming a New Citizenship- Nation-State Project,” Latin American Perspectives, 38 (1), Jan 2011, pp. 14-27
- Anthony P. Spanakos and Yu Xiao, “Has the Rise of China Made Latin America More Unsafe.” Zheng Yongnian Ed. China and International Relations: The Chinese view and the Contribution of Wang Gungwu. London: Routledge. 2010. p. 221-241.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “China and Brazil: Potential Allies or Just BRICs in the Wall.” East Asian Policy. 2 (2) June 2010. Pp.81-89.
- Anthony P. Spanakos and Lucio R. Renno, “Elections and Economic Turbulence in Brazil: Candidates, Voters, and Investors.” William C. Smith and Laura Gómez-Mera Ed. Market, State, and Society in Contemporary Latin America. Malden: Wiley-Blackwell, 2010. Pp. 257-277.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “Tony Stark, Philosopher King of the Future?” Mark D. White Ed. Iron Man and Philosophy: Facing the Stark Reality. Hoboken. Wiley Press, 2010. Pp. 129-143.
- Anthony P. Spanakos and Lucio R. Renno, “Speak Clearly and Carry a Big Stock of Dollar Reserves: Sovereign Risk, Ideology and the Presidential Elections in Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, and Venezuela” Comparative Political Studies, 42 (10) Oct 2009.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “The Silenced Majority.” Americas Quarterly, 3 (3), Summer 2009, pp. 40-42.
- Fernando Ferrari and Anthony P. Spanakos, “Why Economic Performance has Differed Between Brazil and China? A Comparative Analysis of Brazilian and Chinese Macro-Economic policy”
- Revista Venezolana de Análisis de Coyuntura/IIES-UCV Enero 2009, XV (1), pp. 1-24
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “New Wine, Old Bottles, Flamboyant Sommelier: Chávez, Citizenship, and Populism, New Political Science Dec 2008. 30 (4) pp. 521-544.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “Super-Vigilantes and the Keene Act” Mark D. White Ed., The Watchmen and Philosophy:A Rorschach Test. Hoboken: Wiley. 2009. pp. 33-46.
- “Que regime é este? The Left in Brazil, Chile, and Venezuela.” Revista Análise Econômica-UFRGS, 26 (50), September 2008, pp. 245-273.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “Governing Gotham” Mark D. White and Robert Arp Ed., Batman and Philosophy: The Dark Knight of the Soul, Wiley 2008, pp. 55-69.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “Adjectives, Asterisks and Qualifications, or How to Address Democracy in Contemporary Latin America.” Latin American Research Review 42, 2, June 2007, pp. 225-237.
- Anthony P. Spanakos and Lucio R. Renno, “Elections and Economic Turbulence in Brazil: Candidates, Voters and Investors.” Latin American Politics and Society 48, 4, Winter 2006, pp. 1-26.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “In/securing Citizens in Democratic Brazil.” Satya Pattnayak and Lowell Gustafson Ed. Security in the Americas. Mellen Publishers. 2006, pp. 47-67.
- Lucio R. Renno and Anthony P. Spanakos, “O Impacto de Indiciadores Econômicos na intencão de Voto para Presidente: As Eleciões Brasileiras de 1994, 1998 e 2002” Dados 49, 1, 2006, pp. 11-39.
- Anthony P. Spanakos, “Reforming Brazil: A preliminary assessment.” Mauricio Font and Anthony Peter Spanakos Ed., Reforming Brazil. Lanham: Lexington Books 2004, pp. 11-25.
- Anthony P. Spanakos and Elizabeth McQuerry, “Crisis of Capital Flows in Latin America” Latin American Research Review 2004, pp. 258-274)
- Anthony P. Spanakos and Howard Wiarda, “Dominican Foreign Policy: From Nationalism to Globalism” Frank Mora and Jeanne Hey Ed. Latin American and Caribbean Foreign Policy, Rowman and Littlefield, 2003, pp. 104-119.
Joseph C. Marques is a Visiting Research Fellow at the Brazil Institute at King’s College, London. He has a Ph.D (2009) in International Relations/Political Science from the Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies in Geneva, Switzerland. He also holds a M.A. and B.A. in Political Science from New York University.
He was a Visiting Fellow at the Centre for Latin American Studies at the University of Oxford in 2009 – 2010 and, prior to that, had a long career in international banking in the United States, Brazil and Switzerland.
Recent publications include:
- (with Anthony P. Spanakos), “The Chinese Contribution to Brazil’s Rise as Middle Power,” Bruce Gilley and Andrew O’Neil Ed., Reshaping China: Why Middle Powers Matter, Georgetown University Press (forthcoming).x
- “Business and Diplomacy in the Age of Globalization: Brazilian Multinational Corporations”. Occasional Paper Number BSP-07-10, 2010, Latin American Centre, St. Antony’s College, University of Oxford.
- http://portaldalideranca.sapo.pt/arquivo/artigos-destaque/o-potencial-economico-do-espaco-lusofono-temos-mais-em-comum-ou-ha-mais-que-nos-separa
Joseph has lectured at Canning House (London), University of Ottawa and at the Haute Ecole d’Ingenierie et de Gestion (HEIG) in Yverdon-les-Bains, Switzerland. He is a Visiting Professor in 2014 at Webster College, Geneva, Switzerland and at the HEIG Joint Summer Program with University of Shanghai School of Management.
The paper published in the Special Edition of RBPI is entitled “South-South Relations and the English School of International Relations: Chinese and Brazilian Ideas and Involvement in Sub-Saharan Africa.” It was written by Anthony Spanakos and Joseph Marques as an effort to examine the effectiveness of International Relations approaches to understand the rise of new power and the increasing importance of South-South trade by emphasizing how the English School of Realism complicates concerns about system challenges. It does this by analyzing the content of Chinese and Brazilian foreign policy ideas and practice toward Sub-Saharan African countries.
The authors conceded an interview about their article to Mariana Barros Nóbrega Gomes.
Interview about the article “South-South Relations and the English School of International Relations: Chinese and Brazilian Ideas and Involvement in Sub-Saharan Africa”, with Anthony Spanakos and Joseph Marques.
Mariana Barros Nóbrega Gomes
1) In your article, you co“sider the Chinese concepts of tianxia (all-under Heaven), datong (great harmony) and zhongyong (middle course). How do you think these concepts can influence or even model an international order where China is a major actor?
The most direct way that these ideas can influence the international order is if they can be realistically applied to the behavior of the Chinese government. If China speaks of tianxia and datong but behaves as though it is a powerful, unitary state pursuing state interest in a zero-sum environment, the concepts will have little influence. What must be of special concern, if these concepts are to be taken seriously, are Chinese relations with ASEAN countries, smaller countries where the temptation is strong to use power asymmetries to ignore the normative notion of ‘care’ for the system inherent in tianxia.
Of course, behavior is not sufficient as it is easy for analysts, particularly foreign analysts, to interpret that behavior through traditional lenses which, this essay argues, only partially gets things correct. The Chinese government and its analysts (foreign and domestic) should try to remind audiences of what are the values which, at least partially, motivate Chinese action and inaction. For example, the Chinese government is often criticized for its overly cautious approach to intervention and its excessive reliance on an anachronistic notion of sovereignty. This is changing, but, putting that aside, it is incumbent on the Chinese leadership and Sinologists to investigate these critiques and, if appropriate, explain the inadequacy of such critiques via tianxia, or other concepts that have more traction within Chinese foreign policy circles.
If the Chinese government behaves in ways that are mostly consistent with these concepts and analysts, whose commentary reaches a broad audience, can interpret the behavior along the lines of these concepts, it will have an impact on global order especially as there is a widespread sense that the way ‘the system’ has been managed until recently is only one of a number of possibilities. At the same time, it will be important for China to manage the tightrope of having tianxia being essentially something that developed out of particular readings of Chinese history and tianxia being a worldview that can be adopted (at least in part) by other countries with similar interests, values, and/or positions. The Chinese government has been reluctant to be ‘hegemonic’ or to present its policies as a ‘model,’ nevertheless, it cannot expect to be a global actor and to have other actors see tianxia (or datong) as simply an explanation of Chinese behavior. The terms must have some normative value beyond China which means that some of their central ideas need to be absorbed into the way other countries understand a re-configuring of the global order.
2) You say that Brazil and China have very different goals in Africa - while the first focuses its actions on human development and institutional capacity-building, the second prioritizes large infrastructure and energy projects. Do you think that the two countries can work cooperatively on the continent or their models are incompatible?
In principle, the two countries should be able to work together if they wish to do so. Brazil cannot compete with China’s resources but it benefits from enormous diplomatic goodwill throughout the continent. China is involved with most African countries and is represented by hundreds of Chinese companies while Brazil’s development assistance has been focused on lusophone Africa and its corporate presence throughout the continent while extensive is not very deep. The significant increase of Brazil’s diplomatic footprint has not been immediately followed by an expansion of its corporate footprint. Another important difference is China’s focus on extractive priorities while Brazil looks for new consumer markets for its products. While both countries are new emerging international donors which do not follow the established conventions of the OECD’s Development Assistance Committee, to work together, they would have to agree on how to merge their two development policies and procedures. It will be interesting to see how both countries behave in Angola which is of great interest to both China and Brazil.
3) Based on your own academic experience as a professor and researcher, what, in your view, are the challenges facing the consolidation of China as a global leader and Brazil as a regional power?
Both countries are already important international actors. As two very large countries their main priorities have to do with domestic development. As members of the BRICS group there is a lot that they can do to share experiences and policies and coordinate international cooperation regarding global governance. The creation of a new Global South development bank and a currency reserve fund are important first attempts at implementing their shared view of the global economy. Let’s see what they decide further during the upcoming BRICS summit in Fortaleza this summer. Brazil will have the opportunity to show its regional leadership role at the upcoming UNASUL-BRICS meeting. Brazil must continue to provide leadership within its region and improve its working relationship with the United States.
China’s main challenge will continue to be to effectively manage its relationship with the United States at the G-2 level. Growing skirmishes with many of its smaller neighbors over disputed territories increases the possibility of disagreement and possible disputes since the U.S. has historic ties, and often treaties, with many of these countries. No matter how strong China becomes in an economic or military sense it will retain its identity as an emerging country for quite some time. This gives it the opportunity to connect with many countries around the world and develop its soft /relational power. To consolidate its global leader status it must show greater leadership not only in the economic and military sphere but also across the wide political and diplomatic spectrum.
4) Is it important that an alternate view of China - other than that of northern countries’ - be published in southern countries like Brazil? Why?
If Brazil wants to validate its claim to be a global actor and to be consulted on diverse issues of global governance, Brazil must be a space for multiple views on global politics and a general awareness as well as a core of trained specialists with expertise on China and alternative views of global order must develop within its academic and policy-making circles. There has been considerable interest in such topics in Brazil as well as support from the university and private sectors for such ventures. The present issue of RBPI is an example of such actions.
There are two primary reasons that publishing the views of countries of the global South is necessary. First, Brazilian policy-makers, academics and the Brazilian public-as a well-informed democratic public-need be as familiar as possible with new partners and/or competitors and the positions broadly identified within the global South, an heterogeneous group in which Brazil often acts as a leader. Second, Brazilian visions of leadership assumes a sense of reciprocity and equality. As such, it behooves the Brazilian foreign policy to get to know and understand as well as possible other countries, particularly countries whose importance in shaping the changing global scenario are unquestioned and increasingly being realized.
Read the article:
MARQUES, Joseph; SPANAKOS, Anthony. South-South relations and the English School of International Relations: Chinese and Brazilian ideas and involvement in Sub-Saharan Africa. Rev. bras. polít. int., Brasília , v. 57, n. spe, 2014 . Available from <http://www.scielo.br/article_plus.php?pid=S0034-73292014000300138&tlng=en&lng=en >. access on 18 Oct. 2014. http://dx.doi.org/10.1590/0034-7329201400209.
Mariana Barros de Nóbrega Gomes is member of the Tutorial Education Program in International Relations - PET/REL and member of the Laboratory of analysis in International Relations - LARI ([email protected])
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